Remember me:
Register  Forgot Password?
  Quick Search:  
Shop for Scenarios
Article List
Review Section
Advanced Search
Games Wanted (42)
ASL Events
Scenario Lists
My Page (login req)
VASL Analyser
About the Archive
Site Sponsors
Scenarios: 8452
Users: 2750
Play-list Scenarios: 4191
AARs: 121
Articles: 620
Other files: 21911
Ratings: 23652
Module Reviews: 26
Games Logged: 18808
Scenario Lists: 83
Links: 180
Errata: 945
Map Previews: 6433
Roar games logged: 109530
Total Pubs Owned: 98609
Avg Pubs Owned: 138
Second Thoughts ETO (id:#61779)
(Best of Friends ID:BoF11)
Prior Publication: FrF08 Friendly Fire Pack 1
See Also: Second Thoughts by Friendly Fire
Designer: Mattias Rönnblom
Starter kit scenario?:    Deluxe scenario?:
German (SS)American
The first objective of Operation Nordwind, Hitler's last major offensive in the west, was to secure a path through the Low Vosges mountains to the Alsatian plains. One possible path ran through Wingen-sur-Moder. Kampfgruppe Wingen was tasked to seize the village.---In "Second Thoughts" SS-Gebirgs-Jäger and a captured M8 HMC meet a tiny American infantry force defending Heidenneck outside Wingen. The Americans are ready to give up arms, but change their minds as they receive unexpected armored reinforcements, which enable them to counter-attack and retake Heidenneck and maybe even break through to the now German-held Wingen itself with the tanks.
Attacker: German (SS) (Kompanie 5, Bataillon I, SS-Gebirgsjäger-Regiment 12, SS-Gebirgs-Division 6 “Nord,” Kampfgruppe Wingen and Captured M8 HMC)
Defender: American (1271st Engineer Combat Battalion and Service Troops of 179th Infantry Regiment and Company B, 781st Tank Battalion and Company l, 276th Infantry Regiment, 70th Infantry Division, Task Force Herren)  
Turns: 7     Players: 2     OBA: None     Night: No
Wingen-sur-Moder, France 1945-01-04
Unit Counts:
Squads: A:7.0 D:13.0
AFVs: A:1
M8 HMC x 1

M4A3 x 2
M4A3(76)W x 1

Guns: A:0 D:0
Victory Conditions:
Exit VP: Building Control VC: Area Control VC:
Unit Based VC: LOS Style VC: CVP Cap:
Misc Rules: GS. A: Infantry have WC. M8 crew is Inexperienced but suffers no use penalties
Map Board(s): 49
Overlays: RR8 St1
Errata (source)
Players wanting to play this game/Request a match:
stuart62: Challenge pending..
Scenario Comments
Latest Updates:
hoxson1 Modified the misc. rules2019-08-02 17:00:00
jwert02 Added a playing2019-01-01 11:28:09
hoxson1 Uploaded an Image2017-06-27 18:17:06
hoxson1 Modified the misc. rules2016-12-13 19:08:30
von_meyer Rated the scenario2016-10-26 07:00:28
Last Played:
2019-01-01(A) Jason Wert vs Roy Connelly American winNice matchup with Roy on the Road to Berlin. I swept in as the Germans but was content to get buildings as opposed to risking troops to hurting the Americans. This proved a mistake with the surviving troops adding a weight to the attack that we couldnt turn back.
2016-10-23(D) Gordon Jupp vs Stuart Brant American winVASL. Stuart wanted another crack at this one but as the Germans this time. It turned out to be another tight encounter,coming down to the last US Mph when I managed to get two of the AFV's off, running a gauntlet of PF checks and attacks, fortunatelt for me I was able to use smoke effectively and the To Hit attempts were extremely hard...Well worth a play :)
2016-02-21(D) Gordon Jupp vs Nick Holmshaw German (SS) winGreat little scenario which went down to the last CC, the Germans holding on in melee in their last building for the win - I kept the US tanks intact so that I had two opportunities to win but the Germans were too handy with their Panzerfausts!
2014-12-04(A) X von Marwitz vs David Wallace German (SS) winI played this as the Germans. The Germans have a hard hitting infantry force that has the option to give the US at start force a tough beating, especially during the first two turns in which US ELR is 0 (to be changed to 4 afterwards). But the Germans have to make decisions: As the US will receive substantial reinforcements in the form of three tanks and a lot of infantry, the Germans will soon be on the defensive. This is one of the attractions of the scenario. As the US can win by either exiting two tanks or securing all victory buildings, the German had better guard against both conditions. This means, that he will have to rush and grab some buildings (or at least get close to them to be able to enter later unimpeded) and take precautions against the US tanks rushing off for an immediate victory. The tanks can either take the route along the road crossing a bridge and then passing unter a railroad bridge of an Elevated Railroad. They can also try to cross a Deep stream and the ELRR, chancing on Bog Check for each. My plan was to rush towards the AA and DD victory buldings with significant forces that would be tough to root out. The area around the roadblock would be taken by some part of the German OoB and a small force would guard the bridges. I was able to shove away the US from around the roadblock and establish myself in the buldings and close to the bridges as planned. All three US tanks moved towards the Roadblock area. A German Sniper took out one who was CE. All the US infantry reinforcement moved towards the roadblock as well. The US plan to lure me towards the building without attacking them in turn seemed to have worked. My holding force at the roadblock was now facing overwhelming US firepower. With a combination of skulking, selected shots, throwing a DC, some flanking fire support and - last but not least - some good die rolls, I managed to repulse the first wave of US attackers breaking 4 to 5 squads. But it was obvious, that I would not be able to hold on much longer. To deny the US an easy crossing of the stream (which is not frigid by SSR but still a PITA to cross or to move into/within), I placed two squads and the captured US vehicle within it to ensure PB shots on any enemy approaching, having already lost CX when this could happen. From the AA victory building and the CC buildings, I tried to impede the US stampede as good as possible. I learned the hard way, that Infantry fire from a stream is only Area Fire (A20.6) which blunted my defence considerably. During US Turn 7, all his infantry tried to place Smoke around the bridges. I managed to foil most attempts and the rest did not find any grenades. But one of his tanks rolled a 4 to successfully pop his sM to the vital EE hex next to the three bridges. When his tanks began to move, I had the chance to try for 4 PFs and fire with my M8 GMC from within the stream on a tank crossing. One PF shot had range 2 and a hedge to cross, the next two would have to cope with the firer being CX, and taking backblast or not, the last would need to be found by a concealed SMC yet out of LOS. The squad wanting to fire at range 2 never found a PF. After the first tank had crossed the bridge across the stream, I decided to fire ADJACENT, found one, missed but survived the Backblast unscathed. Stupid mistake, as I should have fired when the Sherman was beneath the railroad bridge not shrouded in Smoke! Well, tried for the second PF, but did not have one for being CX. At this time, I realized that in all the excitement I had forgotten to fire my M8 at the Sherman crossing the bridge over the stream (though actual chances of hitting and killing it were mediocre at best). His Sherman was next to my concealed Leader who had seen the tank for 1 MF. So I decided to risk his bounding fire by his CMG. He rolled a 3, breaking my leader and ready to waltz off with the way cleared... But 3 was my Sniper number. Rolled a 1. The Sniper selected (rather good chance for the selection) the second CE tank which had not moved yet but was required to exit. Sweet! Nice little scenario which I can recommend. My opponent agrees though cursing my Sniper that took out two of his tanks who had their crews - as it turned out - oh so carelessly exposed.
2014-07-18(D) Andy Beaton vs Tom West German (SS) winGermans had amazing armour killing luck; after all my tanks were dead, I just couldn't get close enough to winkle the Germans out of their building in time
View all
DescriptionUploaded by
(Public) Scenario Lists that contain this scenario:
DescriptionUploaded by
User Files:
FileDescriptionUploaded byViews
(AAR BoF11.pdf)After Action Reportvon Marwitz461
Wingen-sur-Moder battle (wingen battle.jpg)Imagehoxson1275
(BoF11 Second Thoughts.png)Map Imagehipsu423

Quick Map View:


Wingen-sur-Moder battle
Avg Rating: 7.67Votes: 9
Views: 61
To-Play list count: 3
Estimated Play time: 4.3 hours
Recorded Games: 8
Archive recorded plays:
German (SS)5

ROAR Data: (updated Nov 2019)
Second Thoughts [Confirmed]
[A] American 11
[D] German 16
Wednesday 19 February 2020 03:13:57 PM  (c)dramsey 2020